[NEWS] Traitements contre le vieillissement
Le 17 mai 2021 Ă 01:04:06 :
Le 17 mai 2021 Ă 01:01:08 :
C'est incroyable la qualité du topic et des informations proposées, et le nombre de goliots qui spamment.Merci l'auteur, même si je suis effectivement partagé, pour l'instant tu as paré sans difficulté tous les contre-arguments basique qu'on a cherché à t'opposer.
Je reste quand même sceptique, l'immortalité impliquerait un changement si profond de notre existence que c'en est effrayant, quid de l'unicité de chaque moment, de l'idée que tout est sublimé parce que nous sommes tous condamnés à mort.
Merci. Je t'avoue que je n'ai pas vraiment d'argument à t'opposer, ici ; tout simplement parce que ce n'est pas une idée qui résonne en moi, je ne la comprends pas du tout. Quoique je pourrais dire (si je voulais troller) que le meilleur moyen de maximiser la valeur de ta vie serait alors de mourir tout de suite
I was once present when William Hurlbut, during a debate with Aubrey
de Grey, spoke of “the meaning that death gives to life”; Hurlbut
repeated the standard claims that life without death would be
meaningless and empty. As I replied during the comments session,
Hurlbut had not made a sincere effort to think about what meaning
immortality would give to life, on the same order of the effort that
has gone into thinking about “the meaning that death gives to life”.
Philosophers have put forth a mighty effort to find nice things to say
about death. But this is scant reason to fear lifespan extension, when
philosophers have not put forth an equally motivated effort to say
nice things about immortality.
Such is human nature, that if we were all hit on the head with a
baseball bat once a week, philosophers would soon discover many
amazing benefits of being hit on the head with a baseball bat: It
toughens us, renders us less fearful of lesser pains, makes bat-free
days all the sweeter. But if people are not currently being hit with
baseball bats, they will not volunteer for it.
Modern literature about immortality is written primarily by authors
who expect to die, and their grapes are accordingly sour. Hurlbut, it
seems, is afraid of living too long. Well, suppose Hurlbut’s most
dreaded fear materialized, and he was forced to live forever - worse,
in good health - worst of all, with his IQ rising at a steady rate of
1 point per year. What positive aesthetics might Hurlbut find in his
inescapable fate?
We cannot ask Hurlbut this question today. Today he expects to die,
and so he seeks nice things to say about death, and conversely awful
things to say about immortality. But if Hurlbut were sentenced to
life, he would probably stop tormenting himself by finding terrible
things to say about his situation, and begin to wonder what nice
things he might say instead. Such is human nature, after all.
I once discussed death with a woman who said that, because of her
awareness of mortality, whenever she thought of a nice thing to say to
someone, she would say it right away; because who knows if they might
not meet again. What a terrible world it would be if we had unlimited
time to say nice things to each other! We should run right out and
step in front of trucks. Perhaps if we were immortal, this woman would
have remarked on how, whenever you meet a person or deal with them in
any fashion, you are bound to meet again someday - thus you should
speak kindly to them. What a terrible world it would be, if people met
thinking they would never meet again! Then why would people tip
appropriately in out-of-state restaurants? We should run right out and
sign up with Alcor.
Another common excuse for praising death is that it gives us a sense
of urgency. Go hang-gliding today, go learn to play the flute today,
for tomorrow may never come. These people must value initiative, if
they use it to justify death - what would they say if they were
immortal? Perhaps, “You’ve got to learn linear algebra eventually -
why not start today?” You’re not saving yourself any work by
procrastinating. Isn’t that a beautiful thought - that you’ve got to
learn all these things someday, so why not begin now? Such is the
meaning that immortality gives to life.
What is the meaning of humanity’s unfolding future, if we are to die,
if we are to live? If we are to die, then perhaps the meaning is that
- to reverse the words of immortal Gandalf - we are to take thought
only for this one generation of the world. We are to bequeath the
world in the best possible state to our children, but not otherwise
meddle in their affairs. But if we are to live, then the future is our
concern personally, and we shall ourselves reap the fruits of whatever
we sow. Inescapable responsibility, inescapable consequences. Is this
not equally a call to action?
I have met many people who, when I try to tell them of the
Singularity, say, “But do you really think all this will happen in our
lifetimes?”, as if the universe ceases to exist beyond the horizon of
their personal deaths. Given what I’ve actually seen of people’s
psychology, if you want anything done about global warming (like
building 1000 nuclear power plants and moving on to real problems),
then, yes, you should urge people to sign up for Alcor.
What meaning does death, the inevitable termination of existence, give
to an effort to be a better person? Perhaps the notion of a virtuous
life having a beginning, a middle, and an end; so that it is shaped,
through a finite amount of effort, into having a satisfying
conclusion; and then it is done, finished like a painting, put on a
stand and exhibited. What meaning would immortality give to a virtuous
life? An unending, unbounded effort; never finished like a painting,
never simply exhibited; never flawless, always improving. Is this not
equally a beautiful thought? It may even have the advantage of being
equally scary.
But really, both sides of all these arguments fall under the category
of “excuses to be virtuous”, which no one should ever need. As I
remarked to the woman, after she said that her mortality leads her to
say nice things to people right away instead of later, “That’s a
beautiful thought, and even if someday the threat of death is lifted
from you, I hope you go on doing it.” Once you know what virtuous
behavior would help excuse death, or immortality, or whatever, just go
ahead and do it without need for an excuse. If this essay has an
object, it is to demonstrate the ease of finding beautiful thoughts
just about anywhere.
Neither death, nor immortality, are needed to give meaning to life.
Life gives meaning to life. The object of friendship is friendship,
the object of learning is learning. At most, the particular meanings
that death or immortality would give to an act of life are secondary
shades, fine points of artistry, like the landscape in the background
of the Mona Lisa’s smile.
In truth, I suspect that if people were immortal, they would not think
overmuch about the meaning that immortality gives to life. People in
the Deaf subculture may ponder the implications of deafness; some Deaf
parents even want to ensure that they have deaf children. Yet I rarely
find myself pondering the meaning of hearing - perhaps I should! Only
clouds must be searched for silver linings. Only things unvirtuous of
themselves, must be excused by philosophizing them into excuses for
virtue.
If, someday, the threat of death is lifted from humankind, perhaps
only those originally born as Homo sapiens, we who were once mortal,
will give thought to the meaning of immortality.
--
Eliezer S. Yudkowsky
Le 20 mai 2021 Ă 23:34:44 :
Le post le plus inteligent que j ai eu a découvrir sur le forum. Merci a toi l op
Le 29 mai 2021 Ă 04:37:39 :
Il faudrait qu'ils testent leur truc sur des chauves pour voir si ça fait aussi repousser les cheveux
Grave
Données du topic
- Auteur
- RepensToi
- Date de création
- 14 avril 2021 Ă 18:27:13
- Nb. messages archivés
- 345
- Nb. messages JVC
- 315