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INTERVIEW WITH VIKTOR ORBAN

Ronzheimer: Mr. Prime Minister, thanks for having us. Everybody in the world is talking about what happened in Russia. What were you thinking when Prigozhin ordered his troops to go into the direction of Moscow? 

-I saw that that belongs to the Russians and they will manage it soon. So I don’t see any major importance to that event.

-What have you heard from inside Russia? You have good contacts. 

-No, we have intelligence services. It’s more reliable than anything else. They said there’s no importance to that.

-How can that be ?

-You know, the Hungarian experience is that when you have a partisan-type unit and army, and you have to launch a real war with the regular army, and you have to subordinate the partisan units to the regular army, it’s always difficult to manage.

-How weakened is Putin from your perspective? 

-When it is managed in 24 hours it’s a signal of being strong. 

-So you think Putin is still strong?  

-Putin is the President of Russia. So if somebody has a speculation that he could fail or be replaced, they don’t understand the Russian people and the Russian public structures. 

-Explain me why, we saw mercenaries heading into the direction to Moscow. But you still think he’s strong. Why is that? 

-Because that’s Russia. Russia works and operates differently than the European countries. It could happen in Russia. 

-So how would you see it? 

-I think it’s over and the war is going on. This event does not play any role. 

-Would you give asylum to Prigozhin? 

-I would be surprised if he would ask for Hungary to give asylum for them. It’s a peaceful country. That kind of guy will never come to Hungary. 

-But what would you do if he asked?  

-They had a better option now: it’s Lukashenko, and Belarus is a far better option.

-Why are you so sure about that ? Americans, but also other European countries, saying this could be the beginning of the end. What is your opinion? 

-When there is a war, the talk about the war is part of the war. So it’s just propaganda. May I just say I don’t believe them.

-You say it’s propaganda, but Putin said he would punish Prigozhin, and at the end of the day he was able to leave to Belarus. So how can we explain that? 

-That’s Russia. Russia operates differently than we do. But the structures in Russia are very stable. It’s based on the army, secret service, police. it’s a military-oriented or minded country. So don’t forget that. They are not a country like we are, Germany or Hungary. It’s a different world. The structure is different. The power is different. The stability is different. So if you would like to understand from our logic how they operate we will always mislead ourselves.

-What could bring Putin down in these days ? 

-He’s stable. He’s an elected leader of Russia. And he is popular, and the structures behind him are rather strong. So we have to take the whole Russian complex seriously. 

-Why have you positioned your country in a way alongside Russia, and are considered even in Europe as a Putin friend?

-Are you provoking me with that question? To say to a Hungarian that we are pro-Russian or friends of the Russians is something which is totally different. 

-I’m just quoting European people.

-It’s just totally going against our historical experiences. So I’m fighting for Hungary. I don’t care about Russia. I care about Hungary. So what I’m doing is positions and actions which are good for the Hungarians. And definitely everything which is going on now between Russia and Ukraine is bad for the Hungarians. It’s dangerous for the Hungarians. We lost lives. Hungarian minorities are living there. Danger coming from the war is in our neighbourhood.

-Why are you so sure that there is no way of having a solution on the battlefield?

-First of all, I’m not arguing against the Ukrainians. But I am standing on reality. The reality is that the engineering of that cooperation between Ukraine and the West is a failure. 

-Why is it a failure? 

-Because I think that the way that says, “The Ukrainians are fighting on the front line, and we support them financially and by information and by instruments, and they can win a war against Russia” is a misunderstanding of the situation. It’s impossible. 

-Why do you say it’s impossible ?

-What I’m speaking about are not certain events of the war. I’m speaking about the outcome of the war. And the problem is that the Ukrainians will run out of soldiers earlier than the Russians. And that will be the decisive factor in the end. That’s why I’m always arguing I would not like to influence and impact on the Ukrainians, but I’m always arguing for peace. Otherwise, they will lose a huge quantity of wealth, and many human lives, and unimaginable destruction will happen.

-I met Zelensky two weeks ago, and he says “There is no way of us sitting down with Putin”

-I know that opinion. But what really counts is what the Americans would like to do. Ukraine is not a sovereign country anymore. They don’t have money, they don’t have weapons. They can fight only because we support them. So when the Americans decide that they would like to have peace, there will be peace.

-You argued that without weapons from the West, they couldn’t have defended themselves.

-I argued in favour of peace at the very beginning. So if there had been negotiations at the very beginning, there would not have been so many lives lost and the country would not have been destroyed. So my position was at the very beginning that instead of making it a global war or something like that we should isolate it and take back the action from the military men to the politicians and to the diplomats.

-What did Vladimir Putin tell you About Ukraine the last time you talked with him ?

-He said that the Ukrainian army is very well equipped by the West. The impression he made on me was that despite this fact he thinks that time is on the Russian side. That was my impression, which I said publicly anyway in the West: that this is in the mind of the Russians, that they think that time is on their side. The fact is that it proved to be true: time is on the Russian side, not on the Ukrainian one. 

-But Ukrainians clearly say, “We don’t negotiate with Putin.”

-That’s true. And Ukraine is a nation, it’s a country, and they have the right to decide on their own future: whether to go to war or not. Our right is also to give weapons and money, or not. If the Americans say, “Guys, we would like to have peace, therefore we won’t give money and weapons, there’s no other option for anybody except to go for negotiation and to create peace and a ceasefire.” So it is in the hands of the Americans.

-Is Putin a war criminal for you? 

-For me not. 

-Why not? 

-Because we are in a war. If you would like to have a ceasefire and then negotiate, we have to convince those who are part of the conflict to come to the table. If you would like to invite them to the table and say “Come to the table and I will arrest you,” it’s not the best idea. So we can discuss all the legal consequences after the peace or as part of the peace. So it’s just totally inappropriate to speak about them at this moment. 

-So you say it wasn’t successful. Others, like the Ukrainians, would say it was successful.

-But we have to understand the fact that when you are in a war, talking about the war is part of the war. What else can they say, except that they are successful? This is because they are in a war. Hungary is not in the war. We are far more objective. We have enough distance from it to see it and study it. So our position is far more secure and safer than their position.

-Under what circumstances are you willing to accept NATO membership for Ukraine?

-It’s not in our mind, because the treaty of NATO says very clearly that if somebody is at war, they cannot be a member of NATO. 

-My last question Mr. Prime Minister. If you have the chance to talk to Vladimir Putin, what would you tell him?

-Hungary is not strong enough in Europe to push the events to the direction of peace. That’s the reason why there is no sense in calling him. 

Le 28 juin 2023 à 21:10:52 :
INTERVIEW WITH VIKTOR ORBAN

Ronzheimer: Mr. Prime Minister, thanks for having us. Everybody in the world is talking about what happened in Russia. What were you thinking when Prigozhin ordered his troops to go into the direction of Moscow? 

-I saw that that belongs to the Russians and they will manage it soon. So I don’t see any major importance to that event.

-What have you heard from inside Russia? You have good contacts. 

-No, we have intelligence services. It’s more reliable than anything else. They said there’s no importance to that.

-How can that be ?

-You know, the Hungarian experience is that when you have a partisan-type unit and army, and you have to launch a real war with the regular army, and you have to subordinate the partisan units to the regular army, it’s always difficult to manage.

-How weakened is Putin from your perspective? 

-When it is managed in 24 hours it’s a signal of being strong. 

-So you think Putin is still strong?  

-Putin is the President of Russia. So if somebody has a speculation that he could fail or be replaced, they don’t understand the Russian people and the Russian public structures. 

-Explain me why, we saw mercenaries heading into the direction to Moscow. But you still think he’s strong. Why is that? 

-Because that’s Russia. Russia works and operates differently than the European countries. It could happen in Russia. 

-So how would you see it? 

-I think it’s over and the war is going on. This event does not play any role. 

-Would you give asylum to Prigozhin? 

-I would be surprised if he would ask for Hungary to give asylum for them. It’s a peaceful country. That kind of guy will never come to Hungary. 

-But what would you do if he asked?  

-They had a better option now: it’s Lukashenko, and Belarus is a far better option.

-Why are you so sure about that ? Americans, but also other European countries, saying this could be the beginning of the end. What is your opinion? 

-When there is a war, the talk about the war is part of the war. So it’s just propaganda. May I just say I don’t believe them.

-You say it’s propaganda, but Putin said he would punish Prigozhin, and at the end of the day he was able to leave to Belarus. So how can we explain that? 

-That’s Russia. Russia operates differently than we do. But the structures in Russia are very stable. It’s based on the army, secret service, police. it’s a military-oriented or minded country. So don’t forget that. They are not a country like we are, Germany or Hungary. It’s a different world. The structure is different. The power is different. The stability is different. So if you would like to understand from our logic how they operate we will always mislead ourselves.

-What could bring Putin down in these days ? 

-He’s stable. He’s an elected leader of Russia. And he is popular, and the structures behind him are rather strong. So we have to take the whole Russian complex seriously. 

-Why have you positioned your country in a way alongside Russia, and are considered even in Europe as a Putin friend?

-Are you provoking me with that question? To say to a Hungarian that we are pro-Russian or friends of the Russians is something which is totally different. 

-I’m just quoting European people.

-It’s just totally going against our historical experiences. So I’m fighting for Hungary. I don’t care about Russia. I care about Hungary. So what I’m doing is positions and actions which are good for the Hungarians. And definitely everything which is going on now between Russia and Ukraine is bad for the Hungarians. It’s dangerous for the Hungarians. We lost lives. Hungarian minorities are living there. Danger coming from the war is in our neighbourhood.

-Why are you so sure that there is no way of having a solution on the battlefield?

-First of all, I’m not arguing against the Ukrainians. But I am standing on reality. The reality is that the engineering of that cooperation between Ukraine and the West is a failure. 

-Why is it a failure? 

-Because I think that the way that says, “The Ukrainians are fighting on the front line, and we support them financially and by information and by instruments, and they can win a war against Russia” is a misunderstanding of the situation. It’s impossible. 

-Why do you say it’s impossible ?

-What I’m speaking about are not certain events of the war. I’m speaking about the outcome of the war. And the problem is that the Ukrainians will run out of soldiers earlier than the Russians. And that will be the decisive factor in the end. That’s why I’m always arguing I would not like to influence and impact on the Ukrainians, but I’m always arguing for peace. Otherwise, they will lose a huge quantity of wealth, and many human lives, and unimaginable destruction will happen.

-I met Zelensky two weeks ago, and he says “There is no way of us sitting down with Putin”

-I know that opinion. But what really counts is what the Americans would like to do. Ukraine is not a sovereign country anymore. They don’t have money, they don’t have weapons. They can fight only because we support them. So when the Americans decide that they would like to have peace, there will be peace.

-You argued that without weapons from the West, they couldn’t have defended themselves.

-I argued in favour of peace at the very beginning. So if there had been negotiations at the very beginning, there would not have been so many lives lost and the country would not have been destroyed. So my position was at the very beginning that instead of making it a global war or something like that we should isolate it and take back the action from the military men to the politicians and to the diplomats.

-What did Vladimir Putin tell you About Ukraine the last time you talked with him ?

-He said that the Ukrainian army is very well equipped by the West. The impression he made on me was that despite this fact he thinks that time is on the Russian side. That was my impression, which I said publicly anyway in the West: that this is in the mind of the Russians, that they think that time is on their side. The fact is that it proved to be true: time is on the Russian side, not on the Ukrainian one. 

-But Ukrainians clearly say, “We don’t negotiate with Putin.”

-That’s true. And Ukraine is a nation, it’s a country, and they have the right to decide on their own future: whether to go to war or not. Our right is also to give weapons and money, or not. If the Americans say, “Guys, we would like to have peace, therefore we won’t give money and weapons, there’s no other option for anybody except to go for negotiation and to create peace and a ceasefire.” So it is in the hands of the Americans.

-Is Putin a war criminal for you? 

-For me not. 

-Why not? 

-Because we are in a war. If you would like to have a ceasefire and then negotiate, we have to convince those who are part of the conflict to come to the table. If you would like to invite them to the table and say “Come to the table and I will arrest you,” it’s not the best idea. So we can discuss all the legal consequences after the peace or as part of the peace. So it’s just totally inappropriate to speak about them at this moment. 

-So you say it wasn’t successful. Others, like the Ukrainians, would say it was successful.

-But we have to understand the fact that when you are in a war, talking about the war is part of the war. What else can they say, except that they are successful? This is because they are in a war. Hungary is not in the war. We are far more objective. We have enough distance from it to see it and study it. So our position is far more secure and safer than their position.

-Under what circumstances are you willing to accept NATO membership for Ukraine?

-It’s not in our mind, because the treaty of NATO says very clearly that if somebody is at war, they cannot be a member of NATO. 

-My last question Mr. Prime Minister. If you have the chance to talk to Vladimir Putin, what would you tell him?

-Hungary is not strong enough in Europe to push the events to the direction of peace. That’s the reason why there is no sense in calling him. 

Un dirigeant européen qui dit la vérité, ça change des gaouris menteurs, Bravo a lui 👍